Ep. #1 | MOMOLAND, TAEYEON, and BTS
31m · April 18, 2019
Eric shares his thoughts on Momoland’s "I’m So Hot", TaeYeon's solo track "사계 (Four Seasons)”, and BTS' "Intro: Persona". It’s the start of the podcasts and all the fun! Get to know Eric, listen to his stories and hear some of his random ramblings
Ep. #2 | BOL4, BLACKPINK, and BTS
37m · April 22, 2019
Eric shares his thoughts on BOL4's (볼빨간사춘기) "BOM (나만, 봄)", BLACKPINK’s new track "Kill This Love”, and the new release of BTS' "Boy With Love ft. Halsey", and some extra personal recs. Listen to Eric talk about writing songs and what influences different artists!
Ep. #3 | STRAY KIDS, IZ*ONE, and SUPER JUNIOR - D&E
32m · April 22, 2019
Eric shares his thoughts on Stray Kids' "Charonosaurus", from Produce 48, IZ*ONE's "Violeta”, the new sub unit Super Junior - D&E’s"Danger", and some extra personal recs. Eric also talks about snoring too loud and what it's like to get started in the business. How would you feel if you met your favorite celebs?
Ep. #4 | TXT, EXO's CHANYEOL, and TWICE
34m · April 29, 2019
This week, Eric shares his thoughts on TXT's second single "Cat & Dog", EXO Chanyeol's solo track "찬열 '봄 여름 가을 겨울 (SSFW)”, TWICE's comeback with "Fancy", and some extra personal recs. Eric and Brian also get into an intense roommate debate. Are you Team Strawberries or Team Pumpkin?
Ep. #5 | PARK BOM, GRAY, and NU'EST
30m · May 7, 2019
CONTEST WINNERS ANNOUNCED! Also, Eric talks about PARK BOM’s “4:44 ft. Wheein (Mamamoo)”, GRAY’s “TMI”, NU’EST’s “Bet Bet”, and adds in a few noteworthy personal recs. Eric also talks about his new song “Runaway” that drops this week on May 8th.
Ep. #6 | HENRY, PARK HYO SHIN, and OH MY GIRL
44m · May 13, 2019
Eric talks about Henry Lau's new single ‘Untitled Love Song,' the romantic and sad song ‘Goodbye’ by Park Hyo Shin, and Oh My Girl’s new release ‘The Fifth Season'. Eric also touches on Infinite Nam Woohyun's 3rd EP and Chancellor's new single 'Angel'. Also! what happens behind the stage of music shows in Korea? Where are the snacks? and WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME???!!! Don’t forget to check out Eric's new single ‘Runaway’ out now!
Ep. #7 | WEKI MEKI, EXID, and WINNER
33m · May 20, 2019
Eric discusses Weki Meki's 'Picky Picky,' EXID's 'Me & You', and WINNER's 'AH YEAH' with some special recommendations thrown in. We're also joined by the other alleged Nam brother. DNA tests are being run, but perhaps "brotherly bullying" is an acceptable measure of brotherhood?
Ep. #8 | DAVICHI, GOT7, and COLDE + AMA Special
33m · May 27, 2019
In this week’s episode, we discuss Davichi’s “Unspoken Words”, GOT7’s “ECLIPSE, and Colde’s “Your Dog Loves You (ft. Crush).” Eric also answers YOUR questions during his “Ask Me Anything” segment about the K-pop industry, career choices, etc.
Ep. #9 | Catching Up: Tablo of Epik High
73m · June 3, 2019
2019 has been a BIG year for Tablo and Epik High. Let’s recap: Epik High independently released their chart topping album #sleeplessin___________, toured in both Europe and North America (25 shows in 24 cities), played festivals and shows across Korea, and are now gearing up for tours in Australia, China, and Southeast Asia this summer. While this rap god & genius is busy with all of these activities, he still manages to be a fantastic father and husband at the same time. We @daebakshow are stoked to have Tablo on this week’s episode and hope you enjoy it as much as we did.
Ep. #10 | LEE HI, NCT 127, and SOMDEF + AMA
37m · June 10, 2019
In this week’s episode, we discuss Lee Hi’s “No One ft. B.I.”, NCT 127’s “Superhuman”, and Somdef’s “Wait ft. pH-1”. Eric also talks about his current tour in Europe (#EricNamEurope2019) and answers more of YOUR questions in his “Ask Me Anything” section.
Ep. #11 | ATEEZ, SOMI, and URBAN ZAKAPA + Reacting to Fan Comments
29m · June 19, 2019
Eric dives into ATEEZ’s “WAVE” and “ILLUSION”, SOMI’s “BIRTHDAY”, and URBAN ZAKAPA’S “Seoul Night”. Eric also discusses the expectations and challenges of touring internationally and reads some of YOUR comments and reviews.
Ep. #12 | RED VELVET, STRAY KIDS, and SHINHWA + Eric's thoughts on BTS' recent OSTs
31m · June 25, 2019
Wrapping up his extensive European tour, Eric joins us on another episode of Daebak Show. This week, Eric discusses RED VELVET’s “Zimzalabim”, STRAY KIDS' “Side Effects”, and SHINHWA's “Perfect Man” [Throwback!]. Eric talks about performing with Wendy, thanks Stray Kids for ?, and brings it back to the stone age of renting VHS tapes to watch K-Pop performances. He also dives into BTS' new OSTs and reads YOUR comments and reviews.
Ep. #13 | CHUNGHA, (G)I-DLE, and THE ROSE
39m · July 1, 2019
We are back with another episode of @daebakshow discussing new music from CHUNGHA, (G)I-DLE, and THE ROSE. We are also giving away TWO signed albums from THE BOYZ! We also have BRIAN NAM back on the show and without the #acornofaman to defend himself, Eric and Brian take full advantage. The Nam Bros are back in Atlanta for Eddie’s engagement party, however, the word “party” stirs up sad memories of Eric not being invited to middle school birthday parties. Only on @daebakshow do we get to dig deep and weigh in on things that really matter. “Eric, what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” - Kelly Clarkson There is also a lot of solid rambling in this week’s episode.
Ep. #14 | AILEE, EXO's BAEKHYUN, HEIZE, and MELOMANCE
33m · July 15, 2019
We cover Ailee’s long awaited comeback album, EXO Baekhyun’s solo debut, Heize’s new hit “We Don’t Talk Together” which was produced by Suga of BTS, and Melomance’s “You & I.” Eric and resident jingle-provider Brian also give incredibly unqualified and poorly researched life advice to our listeners. You’re welcome.
Ep. #15 | Catching Up: pH-1
33m · July 22, 2019
In this week’s episode of @daebakshow, we have the amazing pH-1 joining us. From coding full time to becoming one of the hottest artists in Korea, pH-1’s journey is like no other
Ep. #16 | DAY6, CIX, PUNCHNELLO, and RM
34m · July 28, 2019
Daebak Fam! DAY6 is back with “Time of Our Life”, CIX officially debuts with “Movie Star” and Punchnello releases a new single with Sam Kim “23”. Eric reacts to “Seoul Town Road ft. RM” by Lil Nas X, talks about his body falling apart, and tries his best to get an oat milk sponsorship for @daebakshow (pls help us).
Ep. #17 | ITZY, WOOSUNG, and DAVII
27m · August 5, 2019
It is ALL SORTS OF HOT, MUGGY, STICKY & HUMID in Seoul, but we cool down with ITZY’s comeback song ICY (3:03). See what we did there? Also, would you ever tell someone you LIKE THEIR FACE? Woosung clearly does a lot with his new song Face (10:03), while singer-songwriter Davii walks through random places by himself in Nothing Without You (15:05). In other fascinating parts of this episode, Eric discusses the discrepancies between English and Korean titles, mayhaps spoils Tablo’s entire new show podcast, and teases a new Catching Up with Peniel of BtoB - who just released a new single Fly23.
Ep. #18 | Catching Up: Peniel of BtoB
45m · August 13, 2019
Peniel Shin - BtoB member, rapper, dancer, radio host, photographer and RUNWAY MODEL??? BtoB’s Peniel joins us to catch up with Eric and discuss his Origin Story a la Logan aka Wolverine... minus the blood, violence and cursing. Actually wait scratch that. Enjoy.
Ep. #19 | SEVENTEEN, HA:TFELT, and JINU
29m · August 19, 2019
In this week’s episode, we discuss SEVENTEEN’s “HIT”, HA:TFELT’s “Happy Now”, and JINU's “Call Anytime ft. Mino”. We also find out Brian Nam’s true feelings about the intro jingle, discuss texting pet peeves, and Eric triggers a full-on Harry Potter meltdown.
Ep. #20 | Catching Up: Jae of Day6
46m · August 26, 2019
We are back with another edition of “Catching Up”, this time featuring the KING OF TWITTER himself, Jae of DAY6! Jae and Eric discuss just about everything, including correcting errors in Jae’s biography, transitioning to Korea, perks of being in a group, answering your questions, and so much more.
Ep. #21 (ft. Co-Host Peniel) | SUNMI, EVERGLOW, and PENIEL
32m · September 2, 2019
In this week’s episode, we discuss SUNMI's “LALALAY” (4:21), EVERGLOW's “Adios” (8:14), and PENIEL's “Flip ft. Beenzino”(14:00). Don't miss Peniel's story of meeting Uncle Zino (Beenzino) and the downfall of underestimating one’s dart skills.
Ep. #22 | CRUSH, X1, and PARK JIMIN
29m · September 9, 2019
Daebak Fam - we are back this week with another episode, covering Crush’s “NAPPA”, X1’s “FLASH”, and Park Jimin’s “STAY BEAUTIFUL”. Make sure to tune in to some pressing news at the end of the show (aka Eric’s plans for Halloween). Does anyone besides Diane know what Animal Crossing is? Also, Eric shares with us why he no longer has his favorite bears from his childhood.
Ep. #23 | Catching Up: Jamie Park
46m · September 16, 2019
Finally, the "Catching Up" episode you've all been waiting for and Eric's been dreading. Let's all welcome SPECIAL GUEST JAMIE PARK! Queen Jamie sits down to talk about her upbringing in Thailand, her plans after JYP, and the art of savagery as she unleashes it on Eric and her friends.
Ep. #24 | CLC, BOL4, and 2LSON
27m · September 23, 2019
We cover CLC’s “DEVIL,” BOL4’s “WORKAHOLIC,” and 2LSON’s “A SONG WITHOUT YOU (FT. ERIC NAM)”. This week’s crazy ramblings: Eric talks about a sad middle school moment, finding work-life balance in his job, and his love for fat Pikachu. Listen until the end for spoilers on Eric’s upcoming plans!
Ep. #25 | SEVENTEEN, JANG BEOM JUNE, AND CELEB FIVE
25m · September 30, 2019
Miss us, Daebak Fam? This week, we cover Seventeen’s “FEAR”, Jang Beom June’s “EVERY MOMENT WITH YOU”, and Celeb Five’s “I WISH I COULD UNSEE THAT”. Listen and learn about Eric’s shady snail business and his janky soccer mom car days. What kind of summer camps did your parents force you to join? Hopefully they were more enjoyable than Eric’s chess and debate camp.
Ep. #26 | Q&A Special
29m · October 7, 2019
Time for a special Q&A episode! Eric answers your juicy questions: would he rather have breadsticks as fingers or legs? Which two out of Jamie, Kevin, and Jae would he abandon on an island?
Ep. #27 | SUPERM, AKMU, and LEE SEUNG HWAN
33m · October 21, 2019
Eric’s back from his travels! Time to review SuperM's “Jopping”, AKMU’s “How Can I Love the Heartbreak, You’re the Only One I Love”, and Lee Seung Hwan’s “Between Survival & Romance”. Stick around to hear about Eric's adventure in Uganda, what really went down at Eddie’s wedding, and helpful tips from the job hunting master himself!
Ep. #28 | Catching Up: Wengie
40m · October 28, 2019
Let’s give a warm welcome to Wengie for this week’s Catching Up episode! Wengie shares with us her thoughts and feelings when creating her first K-Pop single, Empire, in collaboration with Minnie of (G)I-DLE. Learn about her transformation from office worker to independent creative/Youtuber/global pop singer!
Ep. #29 | Eric Nam, ATEEZ, KARD, and LAMBC
26m · November 4, 2019
Happy Monday, Daebak Fam! This week, we cover Ateez’s “Wonderland," Kard’s "Dumb Litty," LAMBC’s “Prayer,” and Eric’s newly released single “Love Die Young." Want to know the story behind this tear-jerking ballad? Eric explains what inspired him while writing for the new album and his feelings at the time. Listen carefully to uncover Daebak Show’s next special guest and Eric’s upcoming plans in the U.S.
Ep. #30 | TXT, WINNER, and SUPER JUNIOR
33m · November 11, 2019
Brian’s back with new jingles! This week, Eric reviews TXT’s “Runaway,” WINNER's “SOSO,” and Super Junior’s “SUPER Clap.” This round of crazy ramblings includes the meaning behind Eric's fan club name, stories on feeling misunderstood in Korea, and reasons why the RAM in Eric's head is full #RELATABLE. Also, Brian and Eric open fan mail!
Ep. #31 | The Most IMPORTANT Episode Ever
26m · November 18, 2019
Welcome back, Daebak Fam~ We’re back this week with the most important episode of Daebak Show ever!
Eric gets real deep with us. He breaks down his struggle with identity as an Asian-American, the underlying motivation behind pursuing a singing career, and how this all led to the creation of his first full English album, 'Before We Begin.' Listen until the end to learn about his creative process and the back stories behind each song!
Ep. #32 | Catching Up: BM of KARD
46m · December 2, 2019
The moment you’ve all been waiting for: BM has arrived!
KARD’s BM talks who he fanboys over, the origin of the big tittie committee, and why he almost wasn't in KARD. Say what?!
Ep. #33 | K-Pop Holiday Classics: EXO, IU, and Eric Nam // Theme of the Week
27m · December 9, 2019
Welcome back, Daebak fam! This week, we’re spicing things up with a holiday theme!
Eric reviews K-Pop holiday classics: EXO’s 'Miracles in December,” IU's 'Merry Christmas in Advance ft. Thunder from MBLAQ,” and Eric Nam's 'Melt My Heart.”
He also answers YOUR questions on Discord. What is his special song-writing tip? What in the world is his favorite boba flavor? So many questions jam-packed into one episode.
Ep. #34 | Catching Up: ASC Hosts Special with Kevin Woo and Jamie Park
46m · December 16, 2019
Are you ready for this? Eric’s not ready for this.
This very special episode reunites the ultimate After School Club trio: Kevin Woo, Jamie Park, and Eric Nam!
Kevin, Jamie, and Eric discuss old memories as hosts of After School Club, compare pre-debut stories, and eradicate the rumors over who Kevin was dating. Warning: many, many laughs in this one.
Ep. #35 | Top Kpop Songs of the 2010s // Theme of the Week
32m · December 23, 2019
Ready for the biggest K-Pop review of the year?
Thanks to YOUR helpful input, Eric was able to curate a list of the top K-Pop songs from the past decade. Let’s reflect on the best of the best from artists like 2NE1, SNSD, Big Bang, Hyuna, Psy, and many more!
Also, listen to Eric ramble about his life during the release of these classics. What was life like before Spotify, Youtube, and the internet?!
Ep. #36 | Best of 2019 // Theme of the Week
33m · December 30, 2019
Ready for K-pop's Best of 2019, handpicked by Daebak Show listeners (aka the highest level of K-pop fans)?
Eric reveals the results of our survey that gathered fans’ top 10 K-pop jams of the year. These top 10 don’t rely on chart rankings or album sales—it’s all based on your input! Thank you for participating and be sure to listen through to hear some crazy ramblings and mentions of special guests that Eric wishes for in 2020.
Ep. #37 | Fresh Start w/ Co-Host Ailee // Theme of the Week
42m · January 6, 2020
We're back with one of Eric's closest friends!
This week, Ailee and Cookie the Pomeranian join us to reflect on the best of K-pop in the past decade and discuss the topic of “fresh starts” for artists reinventing themselves this year. Ailee also performs a mini cover and spills the deets on upcoming plans for 2020.
Ep. #38 | Deep Tracks // Theme of the Week
24m · January 13, 2020
This week is a special “Deep Tracks” episode where Eric reviews songs from popular albums that weren't the title song but still deserve the attention!
Listen to some of Eric’s favorite tracks from G.O.D., Lee Hi, BTS, EXO, and IU! And find exciting updates on Eric and DIVE Studio’s upcoming plans amongst his crazy ramblings.
Ep. #39 | Catching Up: Amber Liu
63m · January 20, 2020
Finally! This week, Amber joins Eric to discuss all things f(x) and her 2nd EP, X.
Being one of the first foreign K-pop idols in Korea wasn’t easy. Amber shares the importance of mentorship in the industry, her experience transitioning back to L.A., and the stories she wishes to convey with her new music. Also, Amber sucks face?!
Ep. #40 | Unexpected Collaborations // Theme of the Week
24m · January 27, 2020
Time for another episode! This week, we’re focused on Unexpected Collaborations when East meets West. Listen to Eric review K-Pop-Western collaborations like Kiss and Make Up, Cave Me In, and Written in the Stars. What collab do YOU want to see happen in the future?
Ep. #41 | Feelin' Like a Bad*ss
35m · February 3, 2020
Eddie and Eric are finally together in this one!
Listen to them review 'Hip' by MAMAMOO, 'Gashina' by Sunmi, and 'One of a Kind' by G-Dragon. Many hilarious stories about the Nam brothers’ shenanigans, Eric’s 'We Got Married' experience, and Eddie’s luxurious skin routine await you in this episode.
Ep. #42 | Love Songs // Theme of the Week
29m · February 10, 2020
It’s the week of Valentine’s Day~ Eddie joins the show again to spill some more tea on the Nam bros and to review some classic K-pop love songs with Eric. Listen to them review classics like ‘Love Song’ by Eric, ‘Joah’ by Jay Park, and ‘Baby Baby’ by 4MEN. Also, stick till the end for Eddie's lovely shoutout to his Valentines.
Ep. #43 | Break Ups with Eddie // Theme of the Week
30m · February 17, 2020
Now that Valentine’s Day is over… let’s talk about break ups!
Eric and Eddie are back to pinpoint the best K-pop breakup anthems. These include 'Wedding Dress' by Taeyang, '벌써 일년' by Brown Eyes, 'Missing You' by Fly to the Sky, and 'Don’t Forget Me' by Crush.
Stick around to learn about the difference between Masked Singer in Korea and the U.S. and Eric's go-to karaoke songs.
Ep. #44 | Eric's Playlist // Theme of the Week
26m · February 24, 2020
Eric gives us a live update while on the U.S. leg of the Before We Begin tour! Learn about how he felt performing at one of his dream venues and his current on-the-road playlist: Red Moon by KARD, Mirage by MRSHLL, and Teddy Bear by DAVII (feat. Kwon Jin Ah).
EP. #45 | Catching Up: G2
42m · March 2, 2020
Let’s catch up with G2! Show Me The Money contestant and rapper, G2, joins Eric to talk about growing up Korean in Texas, how he got into Korean hiphop, and the next steps in his music career.
Ep. #46 | Before We Begin In Seattle ft. Max & Bobo
45m · March 9, 2020
Let’s meet Eric’s #BeforeWeBegin North America tour crew members, Max and Bobo! They got stories of losing their minds, food poisoning, and becoming best friends after riding a tour bus all across the States together.
Eric also explains his mysterious bagel tweet.
Ep. #47 | The Nam Brothers Face the Coronavirus
34m · March 16, 2020
Welcome back Daebak Fam! This week, Eric, Eddie, and Brian Nam have an open, candid conversation on how COVID-19 is affecting the world and the entertainment industry specifically.
The brothers also share their favorite songs to listen to when they need to cheer up, because everyone needs that right now. Stay safe, everyone!
Ep. #48 | Kevin Woo Takeover
22m · March 23, 2020
Kevin Woo is in the studio! This episode, Kevin fills in as a guest host while Eric’s away in L.A. Theme of the week is “Meet Kevin Woo” for listeners who may not know about his times in U-Kiss or are curious about his current music as a solo artist! Learn about his songs “Neverland," "Ride Along," and "Beautiful Day” and his experience as a Korean-American K-pop idol since 2008!
Ep. #49 | Kevin Woo Takeover: Current K-Pop Faves
25m · March 30, 2020
Kevin Woo is back for his second takeover episode! Theme of the week is 'Kevin’s Current K-pop Faves.’ What songs are you listening to nowadays? Kevin’s been loving 'Filter' by BTS, 'Dive' by IKON, and 'Answer' by ATEEZ. Stick until the end to hear Kevin answer questions from DIVE’s Discord server!
Ep. #50 | Amber Liu Takeover: f(x) Solo Playlist
30m · April 6, 2020
This week’s guest host is none other than…. Amber Liu! While Eric’s away in L.A., Amber is here to highlight her favorite f(x) solo songs. Amber also shares some special stories and lessons learnt from each of the f(x) members. Want to have your questions answered by future guests like Amber? Make sure to submit questions on DIVE Studios' Discord server!
Ep. #51 | G2 Takeover: G2's K-Hiphop Playlist
31m · April 13, 2020
G2 is the special guest-host of this week’s episode! G2 has some chill K-hiphop songs to share that will help you get through the week, including 'Monday Blues' by Junoflo, ‘Nappa' by Crush, and 'Throwing Up Butterflies' by G2.
Ep. #52 | Peniel Takeover: Peniel's K-pop Playlist
20m · April 20, 2020
Happy 1 Year Anniversary, Daebak Fam! This episode, special guest Peniel takes over the show.
Peniel shows off his song ‘Flip’ feat. Beenzino, ‘WAU’ and ‘Chicken’ by Yook Sungjae, and ‘Psycho’ by Red Velvet. Also, stick until the end for a Q&A where Peniel reveals why he never made a ballad song and what his career could’ve been if he wasn’t a K-pop idol!
Ep. #53 | Kevin Woo Takeover: Girl Group Bops
24m · April 27, 2020
Don’t ya just love girl groups? Kevin Woo is back with a special girl group-focused playlist for you! Some of his favorite bops include ‘DUN DUN’ by Everglow, ‘Psycho’ by Red Velvet, and ‘Kick It’ by BlackPink. Listen to him review these songs from a singer-songwriter perspective and stick until the end for his Q&A with DIVE Studios’ Discord members!
Ep. #54 | Korean-American Friends: Jay Park, eaJ, CHUNG HA
30m · May 4, 2020
Thank you to all the guest hosts for taking over the show while Eric was away! This week, Eric is back with a playlist full of talented Korean American artists to kick off APAHM! Let’s celebrate Asian Americans! Songs mentioned in this episode include 'All The Way Up' by Jay Park, '50 Proof' by eaJ, and ’Stay Tonight’ by CHUNG HA.
Ep. #75 | BTS, BLACKPINK, DAY6
24m · September 17, 2020
Surprise! We're back with an extra episode. This week, Eric breaks down BTS' chart-topping single 'Dynamite', BLACKPINK and Selena Gomez's sweet summer collab 'Ice Cream,' and Day6 (Even of Day)'s debut track 'Where the Sea Sleeps'.
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Ep. #76 | Catching Up: Eric of THE BOYZ
43m · September 21, 2020
This week, we've got TWO Erics in the house! Eric from The Boyz shares how he went from aspiring baseball player to aspiring K-pop star, how he passed his first audition (thanks to "company lady"), and why he doesn't set goals anymore.
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Ep. #77 | Catching Up: Kevin of THE BOYZ
37m · September 24, 2020
Joining Eric today is Kevin from The Boyz! Tune in for a casual conversation on pop culture (e.g. Black is King, Community, The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air), passive-aggressive tiger parents, and Kevin's advice on following your dreams!
Ep. #78 | Catching Up: Nichkhun
65m · September 28, 2020
Can you feel his heartbeat? That's right. Nichkhun of 2PM graces us with his presence! Find out how the singer ended up auditioning for JYP (in front of a Starbucks) and which emojis he would use to describe his fellow 2PM members.
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Ep. #79 | Catching Up: Jacob of THE BOYZ
44m · October 5, 2020
This week, Jacob of The Boyz joins Eric to talk about his audition story, cereal addiction, and willingness to (potentially) shave off his eyebrows for Kevin.
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Ep. #80 | Catching Up: THE BOYZ
56m · October 12, 2020
Eric, Kevin, and Jacob of The Boyz are back for a group episode of Kpop Daebak! Join Eric Nam and the trio as they discuss everything from the awkwardness of saying "I Love You" to the ability of falling asleep while standing.
Ep. #142 | Catching Up: Seori
51m · December 13, 2021
Solo artist Seori sits with Eric in Los Angeles to chat about her journey from posting covers on YouTube to being a full blown musician on the rise. Merely days after her performance at 88rising's Head in the Clouds festival, Seori reflects on her growth, her album, and where she hopes to go from here.
